Re: Problem with dependency handling in debian (driving me crazy!)
On 26-Jun-04, 13:50 (CDT), Jos? Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> Steve Greenland wrote:
> >To "save us from newbies" is *exactly* why the conflict exists. It's not
> >just a matter of using the same files (/usr/sbin/sendmail), there's port
> I said: different ports.
And I said that was only one of the problems. Of course you can set up
an MTA to run on a different port, so can I. But it's another issue when
installing and configuring that 99% of the users don't need.
> >by hand. In particular, writing the appropriate scripts to guide a
> >newbie through configuring an MTA is hard enough; doing it in such a
> Really, really hard.
Are you being sarcastic here? Becuase if so, I suggest you try it some
time, or look at the setup/postinst scripts for exim or postfix, and
think about upgrades, and dealing with fresh installs vs. conversions
from a different MTA, and all the different ways these programs can be
customized, and the absolute requirement that the maintainer scripts not
break a working setup.
> One common issue: qmail, it is distributed in the form of a src package,
> and have a build script wich "automagically" creates the package, and
> even install it, but due that I had to leave another MTA installed (to
> keep other packages from breaking), it just doesn't install, so I have
> to "force" install it, wich is rather unconfortable,
yes, which is why this kind of stuff *isn't* in aptitude or dselect.
> and I don't think
> that it is the way it should be. Additionally, after I force install
> it, next time I dare to use aptitude, it will try to remove it!.
Hmm, that sounds like a problem with the generated qmail package.
> Anyway, all that I'm asking to be discussed is the possibility of "an
> option" in aptitude/dselect wich allows one to just bypass the
> dependency handling (something like ignoring conflicts between packages
> wich have the same functionality).
The purpose of packages like aptitude and dselect is to prevent people
from producing broken systems. The kind of stuff you want is provided
by dpkg. I guess I'm not understanding why you're "uncomfortable" with
'dpkg --force-whatever', but think puting exactly the same functionality
into aptitude is okay.
> Debian now, because I needed a PAM based system, and after this long I
> see not much improbement on the package system: It still refuse to obey
> me, and if it does, it refuse to be "helpfull" anymore.
You basically don't want a package system, or at least not at the level
provided by Debian. You want a "Do what I say" system. Which is fine and
reasonable, but not really what aptitude and dselect are about.
> I really like Debian because: It it more stable than many others even
> in the "unstable" branch (wich is what I use), It mantains ports for
> many plataforms. But that @#$% package managment system is really
> bothering me.
I suspect that for your purposes you either need to deal with dpkg
(and/or possibly apt-get with the right options), or build variant
debian packages with the conflicts/dependencies adjusted to your liking.
Which is actually not too hard: apt-get source blah, edit the control
file, build the package, and install.
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world. -- seen on the net