On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 11:06:39AM -0700, Jamin W. Collins wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 03:28:54AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > It's fine that he feels blocked. I feel blocked from getting testing
> > working as well as it should because the security team aren't willing
> > to support it. Every now and then I try to convince them to change
> > their minds. So far they haven't, and don't look like ever doing so,
> > but that doesn't make them bad people, and no matter what I want a
> > difference answer, or how much I might know about their job, they're
> > the ones in the best position to make that call. And until I do the
> > job myself or convince someone else to do it, and demonstrate that
> > it's doable, I've got no cause to expect _any_ assistance from the
> > security team.
> I'm assuming that when you attempt to convince them there is at least
> some two way conversation?
I've asked in the past, I've been told that they don't have
time. Nothing's changed since then to change that conclusion, so I haven't
asked again. People outside of the security team have offered to help,
but none of them have actually gotten beyond the point of offering to
actually do anything. I believe the last time we would've discussed this
was in 2002, and probably then as an aside on a thread in -private.
Can you see the difference between that and flaming people on -devel?
Can you possibly imagine that choosing that path might make it easier
to have two-way conversations in future if something does change?
> > No, going to the mailing-list is a way to pressure the individual into
> > doing something they don't want. Sometimes that's appropriate, but
> > it's very rare; certainly much rarer than actually happens.
> Worked in the case of my e-mail to -devel.
> The DPL stepped in and improved the level of documentation provided to
> NM applicants. This seems like a change for the better to me.
Did you at any point ask Martin, either as front desk or as DPL, to look
into this privately and in a friendly, non-accusatory manner? Did you
at any point offer any help (and follow through on that offer)?
Frankly, that sort of response makes it harder for me to countenance
people responding to the points raised in this sort of thread at all. I
don't believe we should be encouraging flaming -devel as a first resort.
Cheers,
aj
--
Anthony Towns <aj@humbug.org.au> <http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/>
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.
Linux.conf.au 2004 -- Because we could.
http://conf.linux.org.au/ -- Jan 12-17, 2004
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