Re: Debian and GNOME, partnership with Helixcode?
Hello Miguel, I would have prefered to know you taking some "tapas"
in Madrid, oh welll..
On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 08:17:56AM -0500, Miguel de Icaza wrote:
> Hello guys,
> I just got forwarded a few messages from a discussion that is going
> on at the Debian lists, let me reply:
> First of all, this fragment --which started the whole debate-- is
> completely wrong:
> > I assisted today to a conference by Miguel de Icaza here in Madrid,
> > it seems he is running a new business namde Helixcode
> > (http://www.helixcode.com) which will be working for GNOME. In the
> > conference he said that the GNOME developers do not want to make debian
> > packages because "they are too difficult". But he also did not understand
> > why distributions carry out old version of GNOME.
> What I said was that Helix could not make GNOME packages for Debian
> for the "Helix GNOME Preview Release 1", not that the GNOME developers
> did not want to make them.
I disagree. The fragment is not "completely wrong",
however, I read it now and find a *big* mistake.
Where I said GNOME developers
I should have said "HELIX developers"
> I am going to repeat because it seems Javier did not understand even
> when I spoke in spanish:
> Helix Code could not produce Debian packages for Helix GNOME Preview 1
> because it was too hard to get them on time.
> The GNOME project is a completely different entity.
> GNOME is the project to bring new technologies to Unix
> Helix Code is the company that is writing GNOME-based productivity
> applications for GNOME, and happens to have a binary distribution of
> GNOME for various GNU/Linux distributions.
> Helix Code is the one that could not produce the Debian packages on
> The GNOME project does not produce binaries. Not for Debian, not
> for Red Hat, not for anything else. From time to time we get .spec
> files and debian/ directories, but we do not maintain them, nor do
> we keep track of them.
I'm sorry to disagree with you, the GNOME project *does*
distribute binaries (and packages too), looking
in http://www.gnome.org/start/ will give you pointers
to packages for Caldera, RedHat and SuSE distributed
from the GNOME site (ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/stable/latest).
The Debian packages, however, are
*not* found in the GNOME ftp site. Why aren't they included and mirrored?
> I have to point out a few things:
> 1. Debian directories exist for all packages that the Debian
> maintainers have requested to maintain in the GNOME CVS.
> 2. I do not have anything to do with those packages.
> 3. My comment on Debian packages that I made in the Spain conference
> was that Helix did not release in the "Helix GNOME Preview 1"
> GNOME packages for Debian because it was too hard for us to make
> them. We did not have the resources to attack the problem,
> although that was one of the original plans.
> If you want to help the Helix hackers to get Helix GNOME packages for
> Debian, then subscribe to the spidermonkey mailing list at Helix Code,
> and offer your help to our developers.
> Our developers (the Helix developers) were working around the clock
> (Jacob even spent one day 56 hours awake) to get Helix GNOME out. And
> yes, supporting Debian for preview 1 would have just delayed Preview 1
> a few weeks for no good reason. In the future, there will be time to
> handle Debian.
> I do not know why you guys did not contact me directly if you had any
I brought this thing first in Debian lists since I thought some
discussion should be needed first, not just by discussing the
issue of GNOME/HELIX but also whether if our package system
was not docummented enough for others to make packages for Debian.
That's why the mail was not sent to HELIX. I also made
the mistake to CC: this to a public list, when it should be
It was not my intention to disregard the efforts made by GNOME
and HELIX in order to make good productivity tools available.
However I felt that GNOME/HELIX disregard the effort made by
Debian in the comments people make and the actions they take.
Take for example the Linux Journal's article signed by you et al,
in issue 70 (I read it yesterday in the spanish translation issue 5),
also available at http://www.linuxjournal.com/lj-issues/issue70/3754.html.
Specifically the "popup" Resources
distributions are mentioned but... where is Debian?
My point was that maybe Debian is not getting enough attention
from GNOME and other related projects (like HELIX) and that maybe
we had a public-relations problem. This thread might not have helped too
It is my opinion that GNOME and Debian should work more closely together,
for this reason was this discussion started, not to drive a flame war or to
pun anybody. It was just circumstances that your conference started the
thread. And BTW I tried to speak with you regarding Debian/GNOME but I did
not get a chance since you were always busy surrounded by too many people,
you are quite popular .. I only attended the exposition to hear you speak :)