Re: Thoughts about GIMP Logo Contest [long]
I usually prefer to nest my reply with the original message to
put the text so near the relevant parts as possible. I often also
remove the parts of the original that are of no relevance for the
reply. But since I agree with all written and the replied to
message is so long I will put my reply first and only include the
original for reference.
This was the best article I've read concerning the logo-contest.
I can only say that I agree on most (if not all) of your
arguments. When I first saw the announcement of the contest I was
about to write one myself, but due to lack of time, and due to
other things with higher priorities that came up, I never did.
The (IMHO) most important point is that even though GIMP is a
wonderful program that I use a lot, it is bitmap-based. One of
the more important characteristics of an good logo is
scalability. A vector based image is simple to scale with good
results. A bitmaped image (consisting of pixels in different
colors/shades) you have to edit after you have resized it, or
even completely repaint in the preferred size. If it is a simple
logo consisting of well defined fields in single colors it would
be doable to "repaint" as a vector based image (see Captain
Blue-eye e.g.), but then I see no reason to restrict the
contestants to use a program that is mainly intended for image
Once again I can only say that I fully agree with Joey and think
that a parallel contest that allows the usage of any free
programs should be initiated.
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Martin Schulze wrote:
> The day before yesterday at lunch time I took a look at the list of
> submissions for our new logo and was *very* dissappointed. I went to
> lunch to meet a nice girl with a very bad mood. I had to realize
> that at least 70% of all current submissions fail simple rules for
> logos - and our own rules. The remaining max. 30% didn't look like I
> could vote for them, although there were one to three that are
> . I wonder if it was a good idea to use the GIMP team for a logo
> contest. I've gotton the impression that they are graphishms (sp?)
> but no designer or constructors who would be needed to design a
> I've gotton the impression that these people are experts in
> graphics, drawings or paintings, they know how to "play" with
> techniques, shades and colours but don't know anything about
> No harm but these people are to design our logo? I must have
> understood something wrong - or somebody else...
> . I refuse to accept that it was a good idea to insist of using the
> GIMP to create the logo. This makes it impossible or at least
> difficult for people who have good ideas but lack skills on using
> GIMP. However I accept that we insist on using GPL-free programs.
> . I refuse to accept that it is a good idea to depend on scalability
> of the logo but insist on using a bitmap-based program for its
> creation. Bitmaps are not well scalable by definition, vector
> oriented things are, like xfig-based or postscript ones for
> . I don't think that it was a good idea to insist on people
> submitting two logo ideas (official and liberal use). Contrary to
> that I would feel better if only one logo would need to be
> submitted and we, the Debian group, would modify it to create an
> official and a liberal version.
> . I don't think that we don't need to manipulate the winning logo.
> Thus I believe that a submission which only impresses an idea, that
> is only a preview but needs to be manipulated by a person with
> proper skills, would be fine as well.
> . I don't think that depending on one particular free program to
> create a logo for a free project is a good decision.
> . It is unclear to me if we need to use the winner of this contest
> for our new logo or if we can continue searching.
> . Thus I have *BIG* difficulties accepting this logo contest.
> Unfortunately I wasn't able to spend time on this thing prior to the
> contest. I saw that Wichert was handling it and trusted him. Maybe
> I shouldn't have done this but jumped into it before. I fear that
> now it is too late and I should have done something before.
> I have to admit that I have never paid attention to a GIMP logo
> contest before. Graphics is something I *really* can't do but other
> people are wonderful with. So I only accept that it exists and
> that's it.
> Since I was extremely dissappointed by the current submissions I sat
> down, took half a dozen of hours of time which I couldn't afford,
> spent them on drawings, circles, triangles, boxes, rectangles, kites,
> graphs etc. pp. to provide some logos on my own. I'm everything but
> a graphic guy. So this is a scary situation that we came so far that
> even *I* am trying to design possible logos for our project.
> Anyway, I even was able to come up with a few ideas which look
> possible for me. Even two people thought that two of them are good,
> maybe they are, I don't know, at least they *are* logos. I even was
> able to transfer them into binary, by using the power combination of
> xfig and xpaint.
> Now the problem is that I can't submit them, since I haven't used
> GIMP. This looks very stupid to me. Even worse I don't seem to be
> able to create them with the GIMP. I already tried that.
> Additionally GIMP is not a program that was invented to play with
> geometrical material but with image processing. This is somewhat
> rediculous since only images are very detailed, use much colours and
> stuff. A logo isn't detailed nor uses much colours. So why
> depending on the GIMP.
> Depending on the GIMP excludes people who - like me - came up with
> some useful (at least I hope that they are) ideas but aren't able to
> turn them into binary data by using a non-vector based program.
> Now I am in a big dilemma. First, none (or only very few) of the
> current submissions meet my own guidelines so I can't feel happy with
> them. Second my own ideas weren't done by using GIMP, only by two
> other free programs.
> For me the question now is what to do?
> Shall I spend some 40 hours to learn how to use GIMP and how to
> redesign my ideas? This would be about 14 evenings on which I
> wouldn't be able to do real work like other regular Debian-related
> work I should do, write free software, propagate free software,
> organize meetings, talks and such.
> Shall I submit my ideas regardless of the fact that they weren't made
> by GIMP and that the GIMP people might reject it for that very
> Shall I find people with proper skills who are willing to rework my
> previews and do everything entirely with GIMP. Well, I already
> tried this today and spent 2.5 hours only to find out that GIMP is
> the worst program to do this. We haven't converted a single preview.
> Or shall I simply resign and thing the world is evil?
> We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds.
> - Linus Torvalds
> Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.