Re: [Re: Helix debian packages]
On Sun, Oct 22, 2000 at 08:31:12PM -0400, B. L. Griffith wrote:
> This is getting out of hand. I am tired of my mailbox getting filled
> with this
> stuff.
> It is simple
> Debian != Helix
> got it ?
Oh yes, I
realize that.
BTW, do you think
you could possibly format your message lines in a slightly
more readable
manner?
(I'll do my sanity a favor and reformat your lines from here..)
> Debian is a linux distro, held together by people like me who give
> whatever free time thry have to make the_best linux distro available.
Never denied this.
> Helix is a company that pays coders to improve on code.
Or this.
> How can you compare the two? They have nothing in common.
They both have Debian Gnome packages. Considering they have that in
common and the whole of the discussion centers around this, I have to
wonder if you've been hiding under a rock. Helix produces free software.
If the free software they produce is better than what we have now, we
should by all means use it. In at least several key places from my
vantage point, it is better. Therefore, I'd like to see the Debian and
Helix packages merge. This can only help Debian. Or is your problem with
this solely the fact that if Debian includes Helix Gnome, it provides
mindshare for Helix and could result in them somehow making a profit from
that mindshare? *gasp!* We can't have that now, can we?
> Please stop this line, I'm sure alot of people feel the same way. It
> started as someone asking when the helix packages will make it into
> debian. As far as I'm concerened "never".
Well thank you for deciding for the project. The fact is that I see
messages all the time from users who prefer Helix and from developers too.
I also see a lot of complaints that developers are using Helix and then
having dependency problems when they don't build their Gnome and GTK
packages in a "pure" chroot environment.
Given that the majority of people posting on this issue either see no
difference or prefer Helix, the simplest solution to the problem for all
seems to be incorporation of the Helix packages.
> Debian already has gnome packages, and Helix makes gnome packages in deb
> format. If you want them, go there and get them. It is not Debian's
> place to "change" in order to make room for Helix gnome packages.
I have. However, I feel that this good free software should be in Debian,
given that it incorporates several bugfixes not found in Debian's packages
which are frequently older versions. It also incorporates default
configuration changes which make a better impression on people who try it
and the Helix packages have a tighter integration, resulting in things
working the way they're intended to a bit more often than the Debian
packages do.
This integration is possibly because the Helix packages are made with that
in mind while the Debian packages are made by a loose group of people who
may or may not be working toward a single goal of a solid Gnome desktop.
I'm sure many people (myself included) use only a few bits of Gnome, and
are therefore not concerned with integration. I certainly don't intend to
stop using just a few pieces of Gnome, but it's nice to be able to sit
someone down in front of a Gnome desktop and expect they'll figure it out.
It's a question of software for users vs. software for hackers. A hacker
won't care if Gnome is integrated as he's not going to take advantage of
that in most cases. A user will certainly appreciate it though. This is
what Debian's Gnome lacks. Helix is getting it right usually (one caveat:
the menu panel - designed all wrong!) and I see no reason not to make use
of their effort if they're doing something we're not. Especially if they
will happily share their work with us.
> This is where Helix and Gnome should get together and work somehting
> out. I have tried the Helix Gnome packages, and i'm not impressed one
> bit. Several of the programs failed to work and every time I tried the
> menu editor it segfaulted.
Did you report a bug? I'm not a gambling man usually, but I'll bet you
didn't bother.
> How nice of Helix to release software on the bleeding edge, I just wish
> that they would not have left the bleeding up to me.
Woody itself is bleeding-edge and is the correct place for software like
the latest Gnome - Helix or otherwise. Nobody (least of all me) is
insisting that Potato include software that hasn't been given a good
shakedown. But woody, OTOH should be fair game by its very definition.
Don't like the definition? Don't run woody. And even that'd be a moot
point once package pools are implemented since you could easily run the
woody candidate which would be fairly sheltered from the kind of obvious
breakage you describe.
--
Joseph Carter <knghtbrd@debian.org> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3
Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC
The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3
* boren tosses matlab across the room and hopes it breaks into a number
aproaching infinite peices
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