Re: cdimage pages in wml
On Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 01:21:30AM +0100, J.A. Bezemer wrote:
> > > One problem: cdimage.d.o does not do content negotiation, and even if it did
> > > I'd refuse to use it[*]. So a reference to just "faq" won't work, it has to be
> > > "faq.en.html". Is there any wml trick that can automagically add the
> > > ".<lang>.html" or do I have to hard-code it everywhere?
> > >
> > > [*]: It does not work, period. Many browsers have incorrect settings
> > > _per_default_, up to the point that I believe we're losing many Windows
> > > converts because they simply can't read our webpages. I don't want to be
> > > responsible for anything like that.
> > There's nothing inherently wrong with content negotiation, and the current
> > implementation works just fine in a majority of cases. In cases where it
> > doesn't work, it mostly a user-error, and it can be worked around very
> > easily.
> IMnsHO a "majority of cases" is a wrong attitude. It should work in _all_
> cases, for all browsers with all settings. If we'd make a flash-only site,
> we'd still be supporting a majority of viewers, and the unsupported minority
> would need to make some adjustments to view the site properly. Why don't we do
> that? Exactly.
There's a tiny bit of difference between flash and content-negotiation. When
content-negotiation doesn't work, the viewer gets the default content and
then they can pick his own content manually. When flash doesn't work, the
viewer gets nothing and they can't pick his own content manually.
> By the way, I don't think you have any numbers on that "majority" since I'm
> not aware of any way that apache can produce them.
Of course, I don't have a hard statistic. But I do know that we get more
than a million hits a month, and that we get five or six complaints about
wrong language served. If there were a thousand silent people per each every
complaint, it seems that's still quite a small minority. (See
http://klecker.debian.org/webalizer/www.debian.org/ for the stats.)
Also, some of the complaints come from the mirrors (mirror maintainers
sometimes have differently set up apaches which change the default language
when we add a new language). There seems to be one specific bug in Apache
that makes the Installation manual show up in Slovak (IIRC), which is the
majority of complaints. We haven't been able to trace it down nor fix it,
> > www.debian.org and all of its mirrors have been running Apache(s) with
> > content negotiation for years now. We get complaints from users who set up
> > their browsers incorrectly, all the time, and it obviously hasn't stopped
> > us, and I doubt it will.
> If you get complaints, you're doing something wrong. You're running a
> web-servant, not a web-dictator.
Um, are you trying to imply Debian's web pages have a dictator attitude? :)
Changing to a system where all the links were explicit would be a bitch.
If you'd like to make cdimage.d.o do that, well, I can't stop you. It would
be much easier to do, if anything.
> > > > BTW, would you mind if I renamed ch* files to something nicer? It's not
> > > > really important, but it's easier to handle files that aren't so similarly
> > > > named.
> > >
> > > Well, if you have any good suggestion that increases manageability please
> > > tell me. And remember that I'm mostly using mc(1) to work on stuff, so the
> > > names should preferably have less than 16 and absolutely less than 37
> > > characters (which makes it quite hard to think of good descriptive names
> > > for ch21211 for example).
> > For example, "p-ikit" (short for pseudo-image kit). Or something along those
> > lines. Anything's better than combinations of numbers 1, 2 and 3...
> This won't help; there are four different pages directing to the Kit, how to
> distinguish them?
p-ikit[1-4] and other stuff is better than ch\d+, I think.
It would also be good if we made those pages have those paragraphs that are
the same in all pages use <define-tag>s with slices, so that the translators
don't have to copy&paste the same stuff over and over again.
> And there are twelve different non-terminal pages, how to call them?
Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification