Le dimanche, 4 mars 2018, 01.10:33 h CET Juliusz Chroboczek a écrit :
> >> I most respectfully disagree -- I should be able to install the hpps
> >> binary without installing systemd.
> >
> > There are non-Debian distributions which allow you to do that;
>
> Are you seriously suggesting that whoever disagrees with you should switch
> to a different distribution?
No. I'm making it clear to you that Debian isn't a distribution that supports
avoiding the systemd binary package, as doing so doesn't make any technical
sense. As mentionned already, the only thing that Debian supports along these
lines is making sure that your init system is not switched unexpectedly to
systemd.
This has been decided multiple times by the Debian Technical Committee:
* https://bugs.debian.org/727708
Decide which init system to default to in Debian.
* https://bugs.debian.org/762194
Automatic switch to systemd on wheezy->jessie upgrades
* https://bugs.debian.org/835507
Please clarify that sysvinit support decision is not going to expire
* https://bugs.debian.org/883573
libpam-systemd systemd-sysv ordering
* https://bugs.debian.org/889493
Review if systemd is reliable enough to be the default
There is _wide_ consensus in the Debian development community that merely
avoiding 'systemd' doesn't make sense and *is not supported*. If that's a
requirement for you, you need to change distribution (or come to understand
systemd).
> Look, Didier, this is clearly a spurious dependency. There is no reason
> why I should need to install systemd just so I get install a binary.
At the risk of repeating myself: hplip depends on policykit-1, which requires
systemd-login, which needs either systemd-shim (which is _NOT_ systemd, but a
systemd compatibility layer) OR systemd-sysv (which replaces your init system
with systemd). You _can_ install and use hplip in Debian without systemd as
init system.
> This can be achieved in many ways, including splitting the package, or
> replacing a Depends with a Recommends somewhere. Please be so kind as to
> think about it rather than try to kick me out.
I thought about it, and my definitive answer is no. PolicyKit is important for
software like hplip, and it needs the 'systemd' package. Point.
This is my last message on this subject/bug. If you still disagree with my
evaluation of this bug, you can of course refer this question to the Technical
Committee, following the steps outlined in:
https://www.debian.org/devel/tech-ctte.en.html#referquestions
That said, it would be mean from me to send you to the Technical Committee
with false hopes. As mentionned above, my understanding is that there is wide
consensus, also underlined by successive Technical Committee decisions, that
"Debian needs to allow avoiding the 'systemd' package altogether" is _not_
something supported by Debian. Also, at the risk of using an authority
argument, just be aware that I am currently a member of the TC (see
https://www.debian.org/intro/organization#officers for the current list), and
that I think the responses I have given here are pretty inline with what other
members of the TC would have written. (Would you submit this question to the
TC, I would obviously stay off the discussion.)
Regards,
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