On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 08:35:51PM -0700, tony mancill wrote: > On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Jeroen Dekkers wrote: > > > > Frequently, this utility comes via the use of programs that are not part > > > of, nor will ever be part of Debian. Discouraging those who have a need > > > for such tools does nothing but harm Debian. > > > > On what do you base that? > > I base that comment on my experiences trying to advocate Debian in > corporate environments, working with vendors and the rest of the "real > world" (where people don't always have choices to run free software). > It's disheartening to hear colleagues comment about what a bunch of > assholes the Debian people are. I can't help it you can't face the truth, I already have heard other people (who are already a DD) saying the same thing. > Imagine that as a project member you are > a service provider. A service provider can do 10 things right and be rude > only once, and still a user will recall the negative experience. Start by the people who are already a Debian developer and are even more rude than me. Or is it allowed to be offensive when you are a debian developer? Or do you have to agree with the person being rude before they can rude??? > > Why do you think people with other views are a problem? Don't you come > > from a country where you have the freedom to say what you think? If > > you do, do you always walk away when somebody says what he thinks? > > > > Did also ever heard about ignoring/filtering the mails you don't like? > > Sure. But debian-devel is not a sounding board for your views. It's a > technical list. When you use it express your distain for non-free > software, you waste the collective time of the entire readership. I just told the user the cause of the problem. > > > Developers can advocate applicants, but I'm not familiar with a method to > > > express reluctance concerning an applicant. I'd like to request that the > > > DAM to reconsider Jeroen Dekkers' application for new maintainership, and > > > potentially place that application on hold for a period of time to further > > > assess the signal-to-noise his membership represents to Debian. I believe > > > that his immaturity is detrimental to the project. > > > > Because you don't think the same way I do? > > No, because when you choose to speak for the project, there is a modicum > of decorum that should be observed. I will add "IMHO" next time. > I have no interest in silencing your > convictions, and I'm not even disagreeing with what you've said. I am > simply voicing my concern with *how* you've expressed yourself. I believe > that there should be a certain amount of professional courtesy extended to > other developers and users. I offering this same courtesy to you by > telling you why I would find it difficult to advocate you at this time. I've expressed myself almost the same way on the debian-hurd mailinglist when somebody asked if the Hurd runs on VMWare and nobody complained about it. I can't help it that there are some non-free software loving people on debian-devel. > In any event, my opinion carries no more weight than any other Debian > developer (and less that many), so there's little point in you feeling > threatened. I'm simply stating, publicly, that I think it's important > that NM applicants exhibit the capacity for civil discourse on the lists, > and that a tendency to be abusive on the lists should be a factor in the > DAM's decision (which it may already be). Then DAM has already failed with previous applicants. Jeroen Dekkers -- Jabber supporter - http://www.jabber.org Jabber ID: jdekkers@jabber.org Debian GNU supporter - http://www.debian.org http://www.gnu.org IRC: jeroen@openprojects
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