Re: Bug#688772: gnome Depends network-manager-gnome
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 16:27:29, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Ian Jackson
>
> > This is particularly true when these users have already decided not to
> > take the maintainer's advice. By the decision not to install n-m,
> > those users have already overruled the maintainer for their own
> > systems. To say that we think the maintainer knows best is going
> > against the clearly expressed opinion of a user who has deliberately
> > deinstalled n-m.
>
> .. or who just has an old system which didn't have Recommends
> installation enabled by default, or where it's been disabled since
> Recommends end up dragging in all kinds of stuff.
This again is a user choice, which the upgrade to Depends would override.
More importantly, this is /not/ a user choice that someone /new/ to Debian
would make; it takes experience to find out that this option exists,
and in setting the option the /user/ takes responsibility for the resulting
behavior, because the setting /overrides/ the default behavior.
> It's a bit late now, but when we changed the default for Recommends to
> be on by default, we should have purged the archive of existing
> Recommends.
... you mean by removing /all/ user choices? Why are user options being
/feared/ here?
> > And, as you say, reinstalling n-m during the upgrade is deeply
> > problematic. At the very best it will have no beneficial
> > effect until the user take explicit action to reconfigure their
> > networking to use n-m. There is of course no particular reason why it
> > would be difficult for a user who changed their mind to reinstall n-m
> > as and when they felt like it - under conditions where they are
> > prepared for a failure of their networking and have the time and
> > inclination to reconfigure.
>
> At best, it will mean the user who previously had a working networking
> menu still has one after the upgrade. wicd, from what's been told here,
> does not integrate at all with gnome-shell, meaning those users are now
> left without an obvious way to configure their networking.
>
> I don't think that's in the users's best interest either.
The fact that wicd-gtk doesn't integrate into the Gnome3 shell is unfortunate,
however that fact is now being used to excuse *breaking* users of wicd, and
simultaneously leaving them *clueless* as to the cause, with only an error of
"bad password" to work with. n-m does not have "Breaks: wicd-daemon" in the
control field of the package, there is no mention of breaking wicd in any of
the n-m documentation, nor how to disable n-m via and update-rc.d command.
I find your mention of "user's best interest" illogical here, because right up
to this point of the email the argument is all about *overriding* user choice,
and regretting not doing so even more. How can /overriding/ the user be in
the user's best interest?
-- Chris
--
Chris Knadle
Chris.Knadle@coredump.us
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