Re: Window managers (was: XFCE for Debian JR)
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 11:28:23 -0400
Ben Armstrong <synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2001 at 01:52:25PM +0800, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
> > Ben Armstrong wrote:
> > > I'm aiming for "usability", which in my
> > > opinion, KDE & Gnome doesn't significantly contribute to (or at least not
> > > to the point where I'd personally be willing to invest the effort to
> > > include them).
> >
> > In term of usability I don't agree with you.
> > Let me explain, if we considere the list of package listed in Debian-jr,
> > the usability among these packages is a nightmare. Just consider, the
> > save-a-file operation. If you go from Xpaint to Gimp to freeciv to
> > mozilla to Emacs then Lyx the kids will have to learn 6 different
> > paradigm to save a file.
>
> So, we should stop listing those packages? Or we should push to have
> Gnome or KDE versions of each of those packages? Both at once? One or
> the other? You see, there's a lot of work involved to solve this problem
> that is just beyond the scope of this project in its current state of
> infancy.
No of course we shouldn't stop listing those packages,
individually there are very good. Together, they just lack consistency and of
course this is not in the scope of this project to solve this issue but KDE/Gnome
try to contribute to usability by providing a frame work for developper then I don't
understand why KDE/Gnome package can't be added to the DebianJR list or I misunderstand.
>
> > Nothing to blame on Debian-jr but this is these
> > kind of usability problems that Gnome/KDE project try to solve by providing
> > good consistency interface.
>
> I haven't really noticed my own children having big problems with this. I
> think it is often adults who expect everything to be the same way all of
> the time. Children are fairly flexible and come to computers with very
> few expectations. In fact, I think the diversity of 'nix serves them
> better because they learn to deal with the unexpected, which is always
> going to be a reality with computers, integrated desktops notwithstanding.
> Having said that, different children have different styles of learning and
> there may actually be a problem, as you say, with consistency of interface
> with some childrens' learning styles. And thus it is going to be a
> problem we will eventually have to face.
>
> > I have used GNU/Linux environment with young student for several years,
> > and these usability problems make them feel GNU/Linux is not an easy
> > to use system.
> > (Here some ideas on http://cran.seul.org/~hilaire/korea/ofset/)
>
> It is clear from this presentation that you focus on Gnome to the
> exclusion of KDE. But Debian includes both. This illustrates
> particularly well why I don't want to go off in this direction right now.
> If we were to focus our energies on supporting both Gnome and KDE
, we
> would really be dissipating our efforts. If we were to choose one or the
> other, then we really wouldn't be focused well on the goal of making
> *Debian* more suitable for children. Instead, we would become partisan
> supporters of a particular desktop environment.
I don't think either and I didn't made a such mention on this list althought
I've preference for Gnome over KDE. It's unfortunate you focus on this aspect of
the presentation as this represent a tiny part of the presentation.
>
> > Now it's understandable you don't want to spend time on packaging
> > that software but I guess that most of them are already packaged.
>
> I didn't say I didn't want to spend time packaging any particular piece of
> software. I just said I'd like to steer clear at the moment from
Oh! Ok sorry for the mess then. I misunderstand Gnome/KDE software issue
with Gnome/KDE windows manager issues.
Hilaire
--
OFSET - Organization for Free Software in Education and Teaching
http://www.ofset.org
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