Re: Easier installer?
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 01:17:47PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Wouter Verhelst, on jeu. 16 nov. 2017 12:53:16 +0100, wrote:
> > I can't help but notice that their current installer is extremely easy
> > to use; and that, as compared to ours, it seems like a huge step
> > forwards:
> >
> > - First screen of the installer allows to select a language
> > - Second screen has three sections: "Localisation" (which has a button
> > for selecting the keyboard layout, one for language support allowing
> > to select additional languages, and one for time/date settings),
> > "Software" (with a button for the installation source and their
> > equivalent of tasksel), and "System" (which has a button for their
> > partitioner and one for the network configuration)
> > - The partitioner defaults to "automatic partitioning", but you have to
> > enter it and confirm it by selecting the proper hard disk (presumably
> > so you can't accidentally overwrite your data)
> > - Once you make the correct settings in that screen, you click on "Start
> > installation". The next screen will cause the actual installation to
> > start (i.e., the installer will partition & format hard disks, start
> > downloading packages, and install them). It also has two buttons for
> > user settings (you can enter a root password and/or create a non-root
> > user).
> >
> > ... and that's it.
>
> In Debian, using netinst, we have
>
> - language
> - country
> - keyboard
> - hostname
> - domain name, which we could arguably make expert-only, I don't
> remember having to use it.
> - password
> - username
> - timezone, for countries which need it
> - confirmation for automatic partitioning
> - disk selection
> - partitioning layout
> - confirmation
>
> then the base system gets installed, then
>
> - prompt for additional CD input
> - mirror selection, perhaps we could just use deb.debian.org by default,
> I don't know if that works nice enough nowadays.
> - http proxy (yes, one just can't skip it in quite a few places)
> - package installation poll (we do want to ask the question)
> - task selection
> - bootloader installation (we really can not avoid this step, it poses
> too many problems).
>
> and that's it.
>
> That's a bit more items, but not by so much.
Indeed.
In case it wasn't clear, I'm not suggesting we copy the exact same
interface that Fedora uses. Their system has a few differences with
ours, and that's fine.
I was more talking about concepts than about implementation.
[...]
> > Such an installer wouldn't support *every* use case, but that's fine;
>
> The problem is that some questions really have to be asked, because no
> default can really be sanely set, e.g. username.
Sure.
The same is true in the Fedora installer; they require that you either
enter a root password or create a user. Which you of those options you
choose is up to you though.
We essentially do the same (although some of our options require that
you go to expert mode, which I don't think should be necessary).
My point though, is that if we create an alternate UI for the installer
that asks a bunch of questions in a single step rather than having them
one after the other as we do now, then no doubt we'll find ourselves
unable to implement some functionality in the end. But that's fine; as
long as we make it easier for "most" (for some useful definition of that
word) novice users, and as long as we don't deprecate or remove the full
installer, this will still be a win.
> > since, in essence, we'd just be providing an alternate UI to the same
> > installer, people who need some of the more advanced options can ditch
> > the hand-holding UI and switch to the advanced UI. We could add a
> > button "skip this screen" to make that easier, if needs be.
>
> That actually triggers me another thought: the installers you are
> talking about ask basically the same set of questions, not so much
> less. The main difference is that they are asked together in a dialog
> box. I can understand that this can be less stressing for inexperienced
> users: it's easier to leave things as defaults when it's all preset in a
> dialog box and you just click "ok" than when one has to answer questions
> one after the other, which can be stressing.
>
> I can understand that *that* can make a difference, and that could be
> implemented indeed, to preseed the rest of questions. The difficult part
> is to make sure that all such questions will be preseeded.
Right; for the avoidance of doubt, that's exactly what I was suggesting.
--
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?
-- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
Hacklab
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